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Please make old heroes useful once again!
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| Kelorienne | Date: Thursday, 2010-07-15, 10:07:03 AM | Message # 1 |
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| Please make the older heroes useful again! My favorite hero from CoT was the Dark Savior(I've always liked evil men in plate). But now he's useless because only abilities with %s and/or passive are actually useful at the medium/high levels(he has 4 actively used abilities that deal damage). Right now only the new heroes have scaling abilities. Also, reduce the penalty/bonus of new heroes to an understanable level. The penalty and bonus should be a little more subtle, especially if adding scaling abilities to all heroes. CoT 5.4 and the 4.x series already have the information needed to created scaling abilities for the good old heroes, please implement it! Also, I heard about a new item system, is it also working for old heroes or only the new ones? EDIT: obviously % abilities should be left alone. Also, is there a list out there of new heroes or content from the newest game?
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow a Mystery, but Today is a Gift...that is why it is callled the Present.
Message edited by Kelorienne - Thursday, 2010-07-15, 10:09:13 AM |
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| Cuteness | Date: Thursday, 2010-07-15, 12:09:39 PM | Message # 2 |
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| This is actually in process at the moment. Well, the upgrading original heroes is, not sure on item system yet. But unless his new item system is items created for specific heroes then it should work for the older heroes, since the only difference between new and old heroes is the multiplier skills for the most part ( and customized attack speed ) Currently there is no list, the list will be release with the update of the newest version. The change log for the last version is still up here though: http://www.pomfoc.ucoz.com/forum/2-29-1
I'm not obsessed with Cute things......I just like them better then everything else <3
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| valkier | Date: Thursday, 2010-07-15, 1:43:11 PM | Message # 3 |
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| New version will be out soon. Then you can all see the changes for yourself. 
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| darkchaos | Date: Saturday, 2010-07-24, 7:42:49 PM | Message # 4 |
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| I dont know about this thread but you also mentioned something about contacting Waugriff for scaled abilities. Probably a different thread but Ill be replying to that as well here. Getting abilities from CoT versions or Waugriff might seem like a good idea. But, there is a problem: 1) The abilities wont work very well, mostly because the chaotic world is too op. Yes, it is too op. The abilities from those evrsion simply wouldnt inflict good enough damage. 2) Waugriff doesn't play anymore! Yes thats right. His site is down as well, and there is no way to contact him. Furthermore, he didnt even make the 4.x, 5.x versions! Some other guy made them. He never made a map with scaling abilities either. 3) While the information may be there in the 5.4 / 4.x whatever versions, the underlying fact is this: while 1) would not pose much of a problem, the real issue is this: Those maps are protected. Yep. Thats right. You cant open them. While i can probably deprotect it, the information is all scrwed up and way too hard to use it. As such, I'll create my own scaling abilities for heroes and update them in the future.
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| dothackking | Date: Saturday, 2010-07-24, 7:57:47 PM | Message # 5 |
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| It's not too hard to deprotect maps at all....xD Just letting you know. But DC doesn't need to copy scaling abilities. Most likely he'll turn the existing abilities into scaling ones, which he obviously already knows how to do.
Message edited by dothackking - Saturday, 2010-07-24, 7:59:25 PM |
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| Pierat | Date: Friday, 2010-07-30, 11:57:24 AM | Message # 6 |
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| the only version that had awesome scaling abilities that i know of was done by Mystic_Prophet, he unprotected it completely for other people to use after he was finished updating it. The only problem is that it is for the original curse of time, not plains of medea. the heroes are all the same though, so i don't know if it could help or not. the abilities he implemented scaled up comparing to what stats you have, it took him a LOT of work to finish. Also if it doesn't work he would be the person to talk to if you need to learn how yourself, he is still around on West occasionally.
http://www.epicwar.com/maps/4192/
Message edited by Pierat - Friday, 2010-07-30, 12:00:14 PM |
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| Kelorienne | Date: Friday, 2010-07-30, 5:14:40 PM | Message # 7 |
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| yea thats what i meant, scaling based on stats, not 100 ranks of the same spell.
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow a Mystery, but Today is a Gift...that is why it is callled the Present.
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| Zoat | Date: Friday, 2010-07-30, 8:28:11 PM | Message # 8 |
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| I was just thinking, would it be helpful to know which heroes people are actually using so that they could be updated first? or, would you just want to update all of the old ones at the same time. I know i'm one of the few if not the only person who solely uses Mage Lord, the only problem i'm facing is the armor and weapon proficiency.
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| ushdugery | Date: Monday, 2010-08-09, 10:06:49 PM | Message # 9 |
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| Waugriff does still play, frequently on west.
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| MoonLight | Date: Monday, 2010-08-23, 6:36:52 AM | Message # 10 |
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| One suggestion for my favorite hero. As i can see, Battlemage "Block" (20% not to take dmg) now realized via dodge which as i remember shoudn't stack with dodge from chaotic chain armors O_o May be some other way to realize this ability, like pre-heal or something else. And I'd like to see him as melee hero 
Message edited by MoonLight - Monday, 2010-08-23, 6:40:35 AM |
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| Mystic_Prophet | Date: Tuesday, 2010-11-16, 11:37:09 PM | Message # 11 |
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| Heh. Someone remembers me. Interesting considering I somehow managed to take my credits out of the later version of the map. The problem with the 4.x versions is as chaos said. The unreleased version was made in 2006 and has since been corrupted by wc3 version changes. Otherwise I probably would have gone back to it at some point. So I've actually had the same problem about editing maps in that I can't get my hands on a stable editable version. Personally I've always disliked plains of medea. It's balanced for level 50 plus heroes, so if you aren't loading, you have to spend the first couple hours getting money for crazy items. However I would gladly recreate all the stat based abilities and summons and actually make them balanced this time. They were way overpowered in 4.x The method I used was based damage detection and caused a lot of lag at the beginning when i replaced every single unit :P
If you give me an idea of how you want to balance them I could work on it after the semester is up come December. If you have it under wraps yourself. That's cool too. I can go back to fiddling with sc2 stuff. Lets straighten out some things regarding Waugriff, or Mark as I know him. He does not play wc3 anymore. The person using his screen name is someone else. Waugriff spends most his time on World of Warcraft and a bit on Starcraft II. I'm still waiting for him to get about publishing his books, and if needed I could contact him, but unless you're asking for storyline I don't see the purpose as he doesn't work on wc3 anymore. EDIT The curse of Time website has been going up and done for a while now. It's currently up again and hosted by Client (or DaWorm), but has only recently come back up and doesn't have much membership. Waugriff and Mink don't frequent the site very much, and will not answer questions about modded versions of cot. Simple formula for stat based abilities that works on anything that deals damage (healing spells that cant do damage through negative values require seperate triggering). It's a two step process. Code Spell damage set up
Events
Unit - A unit enters (Entire map)
Conditions
Actions
Trigger - Add to Spell damage <gen> the event (Unit - (Entering unit) Takes damage)
Code Spell damage
Events
Conditions
(Damage taken) Equal to 0.05
Actions
Unit - Cause (Damage source) to damage (Entering unit)**, dealing (2.00 x (Real((Intelligence of (Damage source) (Include bonuses))))) damage of attack type Spells and damage type Normal
**note that this may need to be exchanged with triggering unit. It's been a while since I've used this method and I no longer have access to my map. The first event registers every unit that enters the map and adds the entering unit event to each spell damage trigger (there is only one here for simplicity). This will require any preplaced units to be removed and replaced via triggers for the spells to work properly. The 2nd trigger checks for the damage dealt (you'll want to give each spell that you want to be stat based a very low decimal damage amount such as 0.05 and 0.06). then it deals damage depending on the amount of damage done which should be different for each spell in the map. This is an easy way to make spells such as chain lightning, breath of fire, and life drain stat based, which are normally hard to code in gui. You allready seem to have figured out how to make summons stat based, so I wont go into that.
Message edited by Mystic_Prophet - Thursday, 2010-11-18, 1:35:47 PM |
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| darkchaos | Date: Friday, 2010-11-19, 1:38:44 AM | Message # 12 |
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| Thats auctually pretty ingenious. Your making the spell do the exact damage though? (eg. breath of fire does 0.05 dmg) and then detecting that and switching the dmg? (clarification)
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| Mystic_Prophet | Date: Friday, 2010-11-19, 9:34:20 AM | Message # 13 |
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| Yes. That's exactly what I'm doing. Though technically not "switching" the damage. it still does the 0.05 damage, but its such a neglible amount that it doesnt matter. In retrospect I could have simply made one damage type for each amount of damage I wanted instead of each spell. like 0.01 for 1x INT etc. and maybe .50 for 1/2 int. The 1st method, which is the one I used last time, requires you to change the trigger every time you want to change the damage, and I had like 100 triggers (one for each spell). 2nd method might cut down on triggers and make it easier to keep track of how much a spell does simply by looking at its base damage.
Message edited by Mystic_Prophet - Friday, 2010-11-19, 9:36:44 AM |
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| darkchaos | Date: Saturday, 2010-11-20, 1:08:34 AM | Message # 14 |
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| Hah,i would have never thought of that.
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| TheLastShaper | Date: Saturday, 2010-11-20, 10:47:11 AM | Message # 15 |
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| Does this mean we might be seeing some more updated heros!? Quote (Mystic_Prophet)
Code
Spell damage
Events
Conditions
(Damage taken) Equal to 0.05
Actions
Unit - Cause (Damage source) to damage (Entering unit)**, dealing (2.00 x (Real((Intelligence of (Damage source) (Include bonuses))))) damage of attack type Spells and damage type Normal How does this work? Aside from a few ventures into the WE I haven't really messed with it. While I understand the complete trigger what I don't get is how you focus that onto one spell? Would you have add an event such as (Triggering unit) casts (Chain Lightning)?
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