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[Hero Suggestion] Skeletal Knight
meOmeDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 6:36:33 AM | Message # 1
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Skeletal Knight

Model: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/skeleton-king-95759/
(or something like that)

Description: Bound forever to the mortal plane by unholy magic, the Skeletal Knight roams the earth, still bound by honor to fight for his long forgotten king.

Primary Attribute: Strength

Proficiencies: Full Plate and Heavy Weapons.

Special Attributes: Deals 90% Damage. Takes 80% Physical Damage. Takes 120% Magical Damage. Medium Attack Speed.

Abilities:
1) Force of the Unlife (passive)
The Skeletal Knight gains additional hitpoint regeneration. (Either give it many levels and let it regenerate a constant amount per second or give it 1 or 2 levels and make it regenerate 1/2% of his maximum hp per second)
[based on Unholy Aura*]

2) Aura of Decay (passive)
Reduces the armor of nearby enemies by 10/20/30%.
[based on Devotion Aura**]

3) Shallow Grave (passive)
Death can't hold the Skeletal Knight, he can resurrect himself after he has fallen. Cooldown: 240/180/120 seconds.
[based on Reincarnation]

4) Aura of Death (activatable, ultimate)
When activated, this ability permanently deals damage to nearby enemies. Should have 25-40 levels.
[based on Immolation***]

* Unholy Aura's tooltip is wrong: It says that it increases reg by a percentage, but actually it heals a constant amount per second.
** When you set Devotion Aura to give a percentage (negative) bonus, that bonus only works on base armor, not on armor from agility or items.
*** Not Permanent Immolation, that one is bugged when you turn it into a hero ability!

 
GhostWolf223Date: Monday, 2011-04-04, 10:01:03 AM | Message # 2
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hmmm gotta change the -% armor aura

that seems a little rigged no?

would lower the high armor creeps by ALOT lol


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meOmeDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 11:09:07 AM | Message # 3
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It's not that overpowered, I think.

Damage Reduction in this map is (0.06*armor)/(1 + 0.06*armor).
With 30% armor reduction it becomes (0.042*armor)/(1 + 0.042*armor).

100 armor:
without armor reduction: (0.06*100)/(1 + 0.06*100) = 0.85714 = 85.714% damage reduction
with 30% armor reduction: (0.042*100)/(1 + 0.042*100) = 0.80769 = 80.769% damage reduction

10000 armor:
without armor reduction: (0.06*10000)/(1 + 0.06*10000) = 0.99834 = 99.834% damage reduction
with 30% armor reduction: (0.042*10000)/(1 + 0.042*10000) = 0.99762 = 99.762% damage reduction

The relative effect on high armor creeps isn't that much different from the effect on low armor creeps.

Of course it doesn't have to be 30%, all numbers are open to balancing. It could also be 5/10/15/20% or something like that.

Message edited by meOme - Monday, 2011-04-04, 2:22:08 PM
 
Sandman366Date: Monday, 2011-04-04, 1:41:56 PM | Message # 4
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Quote (meOme)
activatable

"Active" works fine.

Quote (meOme)
When activated, this ability permanently deals damage to nearby enemies. Should have 25-40 levels.
[based on Immolation***]

So...what, turn it on and it always goes after that? Erm, how's it an active when it turns into a passive?

Nerf the anti-Devotion aura thing (no?) but like 5% a level and give it a set number too, so when you're using it VS stuff with crappy armor it's not some useless reduction. (The Abyssal thing for one, it's useless unless you have a set number too to make it weaker). Maybe like 5+5% on level 1, 15+15% level 2, and 25+25% level 3. Maybe not, ideas.

Quote (meOme)
*** Not Permanent Immolation, that one is bugged when you turn it into a hero ability!

I think I heard somewhere if you die or have a micro-pause right after it's leveled or something like that it works properly as a hero skill

PS: Please don't use commas for decimals. Reading a 85,741% reduction is nothing close to 85.714% reduction, and is very confusing at first.

PPS: Apparently it's a serious trend to suggest heroes, this is what, the fourth suggestion in a week?

Edit: Oh, saw you had another ideas for the armor thing. Sure, 5/10/15/20% would be good, just have % and set # so when they have like 7 armor and you're reducing it by 10% it's not useless.


Malevolent criminal I,
when the vision paints my mind.
Cross the invisible line...
...and you'll be paid in kind.


Message edited by Sandman366 - Monday, 2011-04-04, 2:21:48 PM
 
meOmeDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 2:31:14 PM | Message # 5
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Quote (Sandman366)
"Active" works fine.

So...what, turn it on and it always goes after that? Erm, how's it an active when it turns into a passive?


It does nothing until it's activated... so it's an activatable passive. ^^

Quote (Sandman366)
Nerf the anti-Devotion aura thing (no?) but like 5% a level and give it a set number too, so when you're using it VS stuff with crappy armor it's not some useless reduction. (The Abyssal thing for one, it's useless unless you have a set number too to make it weaker). Maybe like 5+5% on level 1, 15+15% level 2, and 25+25% level 3. Maybe not, ideas.

I don't think it's that important how much effect the ability has on starting enemies, but 5+5%,10+10%,15+15%,20+20% would be good too, I agree. Needs some triggering though.

Quote (Sandman366)
I think I heard somewhere if you die or have a micro-pause right after it's leveled or something like that it works properly as a hero skill

I don't think the pause is going to work.

Quote (Sandman366)
PS: Please don't use commas for decimals. Reading a 85,741% reduction is nothing close to 85.714% reduction, and is very confusing at first.

edited.

Quote (Sandman366)
PPS: Apparently it's a serious trend to suggest heroes, this is what, the fourth suggestion in a week?

It's only my second suggestion in total. :P


Message edited by meOme - Monday, 2011-04-04, 2:32:07 PM
 
Sandman366Date: Monday, 2011-04-04, 2:53:29 PM | Message # 6
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Quote (meOme)
edited.

Thanks.

Quote (meOme)
It does nothing until it's activated... so it's an activatable passive. ^^

So....it's an immolation that costs no mana? That sounds boring. Then you've just got a guy with no actives, purely passives.
Thought though, perhaps when you get it, trigger adds the ability. When you level it, trigger removes the ability, and adds level 2 for you. When you get level 3, it'll remove level 2, and add level 3. Etc for all levels.

Quote (meOme)
It's only my second suggestion in total. :P

It's still like the third or fourth hero suggestion in a week or two...

Oh, and a PS: Unholy Aura I think increases current HPS regen by a % based on what regen was without it, not %of hp. Say you get 100 hps from str (not item regen boosts, don't think they stack) and you have a 25% regen unholy aura, it'll give 125 hps instead of 100. If I understand unholy aura properly that is.


Malevolent criminal I,
when the vision paints my mind.
Cross the invisible line...
...and you'll be paid in kind.
 
meOmeDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 3:02:28 PM | Message # 7
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Quote (Sandman366)
So....it's an immolation that costs no mana? That sounds boring. Then you've just got a guy with no actives, purely passives.

It can have manacost... But all heros have so much mana that it doesn't matter much. ^^
And Phoenix Ranger has only passives too.

Quote (Sandman366)
Oh, and a PS: Unholy Aura I think increases current HPS regen by a % based on what regen was without it, not %of hp. Say you get 100 hps from str (not item regen boosts, don't think they stack) and you have a 25% regen unholy aura, it'll give 125 hps instead of 100. If I understand unholy aura properly that is.

As I said, Unholy Aura's tooltip is wrong. On normal settings, it increases hp reg by a constant value, it does NOT increase your hp reg by a percentage. You can set "percentaged bonus" (or sth like that) to true, then it heals you for a % of your max hp each second, like a fountain of regeneration.


Message edited by meOme - Monday, 2011-04-04, 3:03:21 PM
 
God_Of_DeathDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 3:26:17 PM | Message # 8
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The reincarnation is far far too quick. Also are you going to use a custom model or a plain skeleton knight.
 
meOmeDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 3:40:34 PM | Message # 9
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Ok, the duration can be made longer... It shouldn't be usable more than once in any fight. As I said, all numbers need to be balanced.

And... I posted a link to a model in the first post:

Quote
Model: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/skeleton-king-95759/
 
God_Of_DeathDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 3:42:07 PM | Message # 10
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My bad I was reading through in a bit of a rush :/
 
meOmeDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 3:55:13 PM | Message # 11
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No problem.

I just thought that Force of the Unlife could also be switched with an active ability:

Force of the Unlife (active)
Deals 2/4/6x str of the Skeletal Knight to a living enemy unit or heals a undead friendly unit for 2/4/6x str of the Skeletal Knight. (The Skeletal Knight counts as undead)

 
Sandman366Date: Monday, 2011-04-04, 4:00:52 PM | Message # 12
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Oh. Guess I was thinking of Brill Aura perhaps, don't know what I was thinking of...hp regen buff I guess of sorts.

And yeah, reincarnate did seem a little quick. But he's right, most fights don't last 2 minutes, unless it's a boss, then it can take more like 10-however if you're tanking for 2 minutes before you die that's not bad, at all. Gotta have a decent level req though, can't have people picking as first skill only to realize they've picked an ult ripoff that's useless in most cases. (Random: Does anyone know which comes first, ankh or reincarnation skill? Random thought.)

Yeah, your bad death!
Just gonna remove the whole mini argument.

The healing skill is a self heal. It might be based on Unholy Aura but if I understand right the range is approx, erm, 5. Plus, even if you had 5 of them, it wouldn't stack anyway.


Malevolent criminal I,
when the vision paints my mind.
Cross the invisible line...
...and you'll be paid in kind.


Message edited by Sandman366 - Monday, 2011-04-04, 4:42:47 PM
 
God_Of_DeathDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 4:38:05 PM | Message # 13
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I meant the suggestion of it becoming active.
 
Sandman366Date: Monday, 2011-04-04, 4:42:22 PM | Message # 14
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And yes, with 3-5 of them I can see how a 2 minute cooldown is short. If they last a minute tanking a boss, and at least one dies twice, they don't need to revive again. They need better dps. Because that's just sad. Especially with more of them. One or two I can kinda see needing to revive a second time, but only under level 800 (or they don't have ace)-past that is just absurd.

Didn't see it became active. That post just came outa nowhere, I swear. I guess when I posted it was after he posted, so it was under that post, and I didn't scroll. Whatever.

Anyway, why not just have it for 2/4/6x str-hurts enemies, heals allies. (Because not every ally is undead, actually I think few of them are. Plus, shouldn't that be 1/2/3x str to enemy if you're doing a Death Coil kinda thing? Both of those [holy light/death coil] heal ally and deal half damage to enemy...)


Malevolent criminal I,
when the vision paints my mind.
Cross the invisible line...
...and you'll be paid in kind.
 
meOmeDate: Monday, 2011-04-04, 5:00:31 PM | Message # 15
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Did I miss something?

Quote (Sandman366)
Oh. Guess I was thinking of Brill Aura perhaps, don't know what I was thinking of...hp regen buff I guess of sorts.

Brilliance Aura works exactly the same way as Unholy Aura. Both heal either a constant or a % of your max hp/mana. wink

Quote (Sandman366)
The healing skill is a self heal. It might be based on Unholy Aura but if I understand right the range is approx, erm, 5. Plus, even if you had 5 of them, it wouldn't stack anyway.

You can either set the range to 0 or set the allowed targets to "self" to make it work on him only.

Quote (Sandman366)
Anyway, why not just have it for 2/4/6x str-hurts enemies, heals allies. (Because not every ally is undead, actually I think few of them are. Plus, shouldn't that be 1/2/3x str to enemy if you're doing a Death Coil kinda thing? Both of those [holy light/death coil] heal ally and deal half damage to enemy...)

Well, the living/undead thing can be left out I guess. Would be better if he's supposed to be able to heal allies too. ^^
(Even though this would turn him into a kind of undead paladin... mmh :/ )


Message edited by meOme - Monday, 2011-04-04, 5:04:26 PM
 
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